Talk: Sindassi

Sindassi and Sindarin

Although they sound very similar, but unless some Blizzard person gives a direct connection it sounds like mostly speculation. --Fandyllic 11:39 7 Jun 2006

There will never be a direct connection. The Tolkien estate would sue Blizzard. But I still believe that it's a relevant piece of information. The similarities between Warcraft and the Tolkien world are... 'suspiciously high' (wink). If you want me make the speculation aspect clearer, I can do that. --Piroko 08.06.2006

Well, the similarities *used* to be "suspiciously high" in the past WarCraft games (I and II)... but since WC3 (and especially WoW), the WarCraft universe really changed directions. The simple fact that the setting jumped from a Tolkien-esque low magic world in WC2 to a highly magical one in WC3 is enough of a proof that Metzen and his crew intend to separate the two settings. That being said, it is, at least to my eyes, bloody obvious that Sindassi comes directly from Sindarin. I think the way you added the reference is perfect, but I personally would change "speculative" to "highly probable" (since we cannot say it's official unless a Blizzard employee says it, and they won't). In any way, it's not such a big deal but I'm happy to see that someone thought about adding it. --DarthMuffin 10:15, 13 June 2006 (EDT)

I don't think it's obvious at all that Sindarin is the origin of the word, or even that there's any good evidence to justify a mention of it. Given that night elves were kaldorei and high elves were quel'dorei, it was quite likely that the blood elves would take on a similar name. There's really no magic in taking a language called Thallassian and a people called the sin'dorei and combining them to get Sindassi.

Ultimately all of that is just my opinion, and it could never be demonstrated either way, which is why I'm not a fan of including unverifiable speculation in the wiki. If we do keep it, I think we can just mention that it is in name similar to the Tolkien elvish language of Sindarin, and leave it at that.--Aeleas 18:04, 3 November 2006 (EST)

My idea is to say there appears to be a certain correllation between the Sindar and the Sindorei in general, but any attempt to suggest that the Blood Elves are based on them is simply wrong. If anything, it's just a little tip of the hat, as they say, to Tolkien. --Ragestorm 19:09, 3 November 2006 (EST)

I've tried to tweak the language to indicate that "tip of the hat" concept, rather than pure borrowing. Have at it. --Silverpie 14:26, 7 November 2006 (EST)

I noticed the comment about the similarities in decoration between the Sindar of the LotR Film Trilogy and the Sindorei and am utterly confused. We see Rivendell/Imladris, which is a High Elven (Noldor) stronghold; Lothlorien, which like Mirkwood is a Silvan Elf kingdom ruled by Sindar (Celeborn) and a single Noldor (Galadriel); and for a very brief moment the Grey Havens (conceding here that this is the only Sindarin locale shown). I also noted that no where in the entire film trilogy did I see copious amounts of Acidic Green in the crystal or Blood Red. The color scheme for all of the elven havens in the films consisted of lots of silvery white, a little gold (Mallorn trees), and leafy green. Could someone explain to me where we see Blood Elf colors in these films beyond simply comparing the Mallorn trees to those in Silvermoon?

This may be speculation, but it seems more appropriate that the "eternal springtime" of Quel'Thalas has been altered to an "eternal fall" not to draw connections to Tolkien's Sindar (though elves in general and especially those that are on the verge of/have been "leaving the mortal realms" will always do that), but to immerse the player in the results of the Sindorei's fatalistic philosophy (illustrated by their chosen crest of the Phoenix, that they may be in pain but they'll not give up easily). I mean, they've chosen three colors: Red, Yellow, and Green. That shade of green has essentially been made canonical for Fel energy, while Red and Yellow are fiery (and demons are often fiery).

Just my two cents, but I see more symbolism (and deeper connections) than "they used red, yellow, and green" involved in the color scheme of Silvermoon and Quel'Thalas.

--Iro 18:11, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

By sindar coloring, it refered to the elves who came to the Battle of Helm's Deep, who wore dark gold and even darker red, of similar style and scheme to Silvermoon and a number of its inhabitants. The section should be removed from this page anyway. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 19:47, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

Of note, Elves coming to the Battle of Helm's Deep was a severe inaccuracy in the LotR movies, if you read the books you will find that the reason the Battle of Helm's Deep was such an important battle was that the Elves were involved in other parts of the war and were unable to come to aid the Rohirim. The Rohirim had to win that battle without the aid of the Elves in order to be able to come to the aid of Minas Tirath. So, the coloration of the Elves garb in the movie would bear no relevance to the possibility of any relation for concept for the Blood Elves to Tolkien's creation of the Sindar, perhaps a relation to Peter Jackson's mistelling of the story. Arainwen 11:43, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Sindassi and Orcish

So, WTF. The Blood Elves can speak Orcish, but not Common. And they created a brand new language. Oh my god this is so headaching.--Kirochi (talk) 11:14, 27 September 2006 (EDT)

Accuracy

Blood elves in beta speak Thalassian and Orcish. I'm not sure where this came from, but it's either an incorrect leak, or something that has been changed in the game.--Aeleas 11:48, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Beta tester here. Blood elves in game speak Thalassian and Orcish, I can confirm you would appear to be correct. ~~Silvermist

This would seem fitting, as it would be unusual for the high elves to suddenly change their language... --Vorbis23:02, 2 November 2006 (GMT)

But then, why Mr. Anderson, why would they forget Common, learn Orcish and why would Dwarves and Humans suddenly forget Thalassian ?--K ) (talk) 18:17, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Its information established in the RPG, and/or last released novel, in which 4 dialects of darnassian were referred to, Thalassian, Darnassian, Sindassi and the Nazja language. It was assumed that it would be used in the game, but since it doesn't I've decided to mark this with RPG and Novel tags. I don't remember where the sindassi quotes were that I read, but if someone knows they can cite the page numbers.Baggins 19:15, 2 November 2006 (EST)

I think you are mistaken. Yes, the novel Cycle of Hatred mentions x (not sure about the number) dialects of 'Elvish' but doesn't say how these dialects are called. The name "Sindassi" for the language of the blood elves comes from an early alpha version of the Burning Crusade expansion that was shown last year. It's obvious that Blizzard changed their mind about the name of the blood elf language since that early alpha. So since the only source that "Sindassi" appears in is a very old alpha version that was never released I would argue that we can say that "Sindassi" is non-canon and should probably be removed from WoWWiki to avoid confusion. Or at least the article should make clear that Sindassi is only a term used in an alpha and seemingly not part of the official Warcraft lore. But we should probably wait with that until BC is released and we know for sure. --Foogray 06:05, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Ok I'm fine with the removal then.Baggins 09:54, 7 November 2006 (EST)

It said 4 dialects of Elven. I would have assumed they where Thalassian, Nazja, Darnassian and a Satyr language Saimdusan 00:51, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Well according to the RPG Satyr's just speak Darnassian as I recall. So that still leaves the mysterious 4th dialect unknown, unless its referring to the RPG's Elven.Baggins 00:26, 24 December 2006 (EST)

According to Monster Guide, 2007, the main language of satyrs is Eredun. However it also mentions that satyrs originate from other races other than elves, so that each satyr likely has whatever its native race's language was after it becomes a satyr.Baggins 15:14, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

Accuracy Stub?

Regarding the accuracy stub... I do not see that the first paragraph of the Origin section merits an accuracy analysis. That JRRT coined the word Sindarin and that it was the language of the elves is clearly established in the text of the Silmarillion. The paragraph itself links directly to the Wikipedia definitions of those words. The second paragraph however is more conjectural, and I believe should be removed. Piroko 16:21, 24 January 2007 (EST)