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Again, welcome!   --Tarog (talk) 18:29, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


Unfortunately, I cannot accept you into the Bookkeepers at this time. Leaving aside the smaller things such as not signing your post properly, your edits don't really relate to Lore in the way that we operate. Our intention is not to update every little lore detail or to provide speculation- we are here to ensure the quality and canocity of lore articles. Your contributions thus far have not demonstrated changes along those lines. You're not completely out of the running, however; you may re-apply at a point in the future when you feel you have more experience. --Ragestorm 07:45, 17 June 2006 (EDT)

For future reference, the term "use the following format" usually means "copy the format for your entry" not "replace." I'm intrigued as to your cast list. You propose a series of visions revealed to Thrall (which you should reproduce on the page). I gather that one of these visions deals with Mannoroth and the corruption of the orcs? I like the idea, but why is Cairn there? --Ragestorm 17:20, 6 September 2006 (EDT)

Famous "Creature" Tables

So, I was thinking. What do you think sounds better? Famous "Creature" or Notable "Creature"? I think, I might change them to Notable because a lot of the sections in the races are called Notable and I think it sounds better.. --IconSmall Deathknight.gifBuraisu (Talk · Contr) 20:00, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

ex-paladins and death knights

Be careful with death knights, not all death were previously paladins, some were made from corrupted warriors, and other classes.Baggins 10:37, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Any evidence that Rivendare was a former paladin? Only lore I can find was he was just some rich landowner and aritocrat.Baggins 12:53, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Also Thomas Thomson is kind of questionable, he appears to get atonement and redemption in the end. I'd say put Jorad Mace under ex-paladins for now, if he ever gets redemption then move him to paladin. I don't remember if he's back to being a paladin in Outland or not. If he is now a paladin again he'll need to be adjusted.Baggins 12:56, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

NPC titles

Per policy, in-game NPC articles keep their names as in game, which includes their titles. You'vem ade many edits to undo this, listing policy in your edit summaries. There is no policy to support you edits, but a policy to revert them. So i aks that you pelase stop these string of incorrect edits and start reverting them. i'm going to be reverting a few myself. -- 

  17:38, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

What map?

See question. --Sky (t | c | w) 10:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Naming policy

I stand corrected. Feel free to revert my edits.IconSmall BloodElf2 Male.gifAMBER(RΘCK) 18:15, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Ehm... no? IconSmall BloodElf2 Male.gifAMBER(RΘCK) 18:22, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
As I said, I stand corrected. So Astalor Bloodsworn would be the way to go.IconSmall BloodElf2 Male.gifAMBER(RΘCK) 19:30, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


She's outside the instance too and does have some different quotes than she does inside the instance... --k_d3 19:44, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


Oh how clever.--User:Gourra/Sig2 09:21, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


Just a heads-up: If I put images in NPCboxes, especially for articles I imported/edited in the last 5 hours, they're going to be getting added to the wiki as soon as JSharp gets around to it... Especially since I emailed them to him 4-5 hours ago. Don't spend too much effort in changing them around. Thanks --k_d3 09:18, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Yorg Stormheart

Please do NOT change his race back to dwarf. He's a frost dwarf as he as been called one, refrences him self as one, and every qeust he is mentioned in he is known as a frost dwarf. The model is just a place holder, remeber the taunkas.--Whitedragon254 (talk) 19:55, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah i see! im sorry i didnt see that section, never looked for it. So sorry, but yes that means for sure that Yorg = Muradin, as the story clearly points to muradin, but if we should merge the two articles im not sure.--Whitedragon254 (talk) 16:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey i saw u edited the thing and changed it to stoneskin instead of avatar, just saying that isnt actually more accurate as avatar would be more accurate. Stoneskin well... makes your skin like stone. Avatar makes your skin have a stonelike texture makes you grow larger and lightning is known to appear near your hands. just saying is all.--Whitedragon254 (talk) 23:48, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes thats what i meant. Stoneform in lore isnt really refered to as stoneform. Avatar is really the only one thats refered to properly.--Whitedragon254 (talk) 19:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


Good job on uploading the image of the elder Abbendis. Any chance you can get the artwork for the daughter for use in the infobox? For that matter we could use artwork for any characters that haven't previously gotten artwork before.Baggins (talk) 05:10, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Fact template

If you see a piece of information you are not sure about please use the {{fact}} to display [citation needed] and wait a reasonable amount of time for a citation to be provided, instead of simply deleting said info on the spot.Warthok Talk Contribs 10:34, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I think he has neither the ability besides the class... --N'Nanz (talk) 11:00, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
He does have the ability as do most dwarves (stoneskin). Regardless my point is about the [citation needed] template. Usuauly want to give ppl a little while. To quote Kirkburn: "The wiki works on the scale of days not seconds".Warthok Talk Contribs 11:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Dual concurrent membership=

Need to be carefuly with characters that shared dual membership with two or more organizations in the same period of time. Turalyon was both a Knight of the Silver Hand, and a member of Sons of Lothar. Not all Argent Dawn members gave up their memberships in the Knights of the Silver Hand, and held the memberships concurrent to each other (which is probably one of the reasons why they were open to combining them into the Argent Crusade).

While we can speak for paladins in Northrend, we do not know if every paladin in every part of the world has automatically become part of the "Argent Crusade" (some of the old factions might still exist both lore wise and for game mechanics). We also don't know if individuals think of the older organizations as suborganizations within the new organization or if they were completely obliterated.

We need to tread carefully around making assumptions until more specific information is released on the issue.Baggins (talk) 12:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I concur. Just fixing it CONcurrently with you :p --N'Nanz (talk) 12:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Hmm we are being careful not to list anything but confirmed paladins right? To avoid speculation... Just having a paladin or priest ability doesn't necessarily mean they are a paladin or priest in lore. You might remember Aliden Perenolde being on the lists, but later we found out that syndicate doesn't have any of the healer classes, and doesn't have paladins. So its an issue of mechanics vs. lore.
To be on the safe side we should only list varifiable paladins with citations to specific quests or ingame quotes that establish them as paladins, if their names do not specifically point it out first.Baggins (talk) 12:32, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Hmm technically we could leave off "concurrent" and not put any parenthetical remarks if we do not know if something is specifically former or current (change). By leaving no remark it implies "concurrent" but also remains neutral enough, as to not be making any leaping assumptions.Baggins (talk) 12:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Argent Crusade

Ok, I'm a bit confused is it a new Alliance faction? ... or is it neutral to both Horde and Alliance like the old Argent Dawn?Baggins (talk) 16:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

In anycase if it turns out that majority of Argent Crusade quests are Alliance only, then we'll have to move affiliation to Alliance section. As I mentioned before things aren't always "Horde vs. Alliance" the gameplay might be that way, but the lore doesn't always follow that way. So you can have members from Horde in an alliance organization or vice versa, but the organization itself might be affiliated with one or the other.
P.S. You really only need to keep the conversation in one page... No need to go back and forth between my page and yours... Stick to the one where the discussion started :p...Baggins (talk)

Are the Argent Crusade towns and NPCs neutral to both Horde and Alliance. That would telling evidence.Baggins (talk) 17:41, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

TCG characters

BTW its ok to list them in the main lists. Just use teh "role" section to point out the tcg connection, and maybe their "lore quote".Baggins (talk) 17:50, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

RE: external link template

I don't take orders, I was changing categories from Eastern Plaguelands to Scarlet Enclave. But feel free to go back over them and switch the templates as you see fit. User:Coobra/Sig3 02:09, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, so I forget to add /wotlk to a few minor articles every once and awhile, however, "fix Wrath of the Lich King NPCs and quests with the proper template that is {{Elinks-NPC/wotlk|}} instead of {{elinks-NPC|}}" sounds like an order to me. Maybe if you had said Could you or would you, but you didn't ask... you told me to go fix. It's called etiquette. Oh, and news flash, I've only made 4 new NPC pages (within the last few days) 2 of which were missing the /wotlk, and I haven't made a new quest page in a long time. So your comment was just plain out of line in the first place.
And considering the last few NPC articles you've made don't even have external links ( Entari / Dalfors ), I don't think you have any right to comment on what I forget to do. User:Coobra/Sig3 21:42, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh thank you for the advise you gave me, I'm going to FIX it in no-time. That's simply what you too should have said. --N'Nanz (talk) 21:46, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


Even though Icecrown Glacier redirects to Icecrown, the glacier is a subzone of Icecrown. You'd have to be in the beta to understand. User:Gourra/Sig2 11:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

ok, I'll leave it. Let's see how it evolves. Since you are in beta, solve this issue, please: Argent Dawn is an Alliance faction only or one can gain reputation even if Horde? --N'Nanz (talk) 11:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Argent Crusade is a neutral faction. User:Gourra/Sig2 11:50, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Ops... Just as I intended ;p --N'Nanz (talk) 11:52, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

What more is there to say? User:Gourra/Sig2 19:23, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

  • You could say that the Argent Crusade seems to be more alliance oriented? BobNamataki (talk) 18:09, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

No, neutral or better still the Argent Crusade is trying to establish peace between Alliance and Horde. --N'Nanz (talk) 09:50, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Kingdom of Stormwind

Well we know how the rpg has it, but I split out the page to make it slighly less confusion. If you'd like to help expand and clarify things ont the kingdom page, go ahead.Baggins (talk) 17:51, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Surely Baggins. Even if atm I haven't RPG at hand. Let's see what my memory recalls --N'Nanz (talk) 17:56, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd suggest put the table after the quote sections, and put it into auto-collaspse mode.Baggins (talk) 19:29, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


.../point at the "Possibly" above. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 18:00, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I just looked at the Faith and History parts of the Tauren article, and the Tauren mythology page...mythology says a little bit about the Titans, but never directly says that the tauren were touched by the Titans, or that the Titans heard of them. And, the Faith/History parts of the Tauren article doesn't say anything about Titans.

I dare ask, how is what I say nonsense? I see what you mean by us not knowing, but usually when we don't know we just say that they didn't until further evidence dis-proves that. Then we usually get into big arguements about it, blah blah blah...and then eventually we end up changing it. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 18:09, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

You said read about the tauren, you didn't say anything about the Earthmother -_- Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 18:24, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

...And once more, I find nothing about the Titans, save speculation, which is nothing but speculation until further proven otherwise. I'm really starting to question how much you check these pages yourself. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 18:26, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I believe in myself too. And you know what I believe? My opinion, and the fact that the only articles directly relating to tauren that say anything about the Titans is the Tauren mythology page with it's one, scant mention, and the Earthmother page, with it's speculation, which I repeat once more is ONLY speculation until proven otherwise.

Why don't YOU just go and check for it or tell me where I can find it, if you're so eager to show me the light and error of my ways? Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 18:37, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Alright, the whole sage thing was kind of funny at first, but now it's just ridiculous. Just tell me so we can get this arguement over with. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 18:47, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Alright, the Trivia section on the Titan article MENTIONS trolls and tauren. So MAYBE they've heard of trolls and tauren, doesn't mean they were touched in any specific way. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 18:53, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Quest:Tirion's Gambit

I have a difficult time telling whether you a) had a screenshot indicating that the word was indeed "insane", or b) you saw the word "inane" and though it was a spelling error. If the latter, please revert Quest:Tirion's Gambit. Inane is a perfectly valid word for the situation described. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 16:37, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

Your Expansion

If you don't have time for your expansion, you can tell me what to do and I'll edit it for you. BobNamataki (talk) 18:05, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

What expansion!? If you mean my fictional expansion don't worry, I already hired Blizzard and they are doing a hideous work... --N'Nanz (talk) 09:51, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

So you're against Cataclysm? Hmmm, I approve the races yet disagree with the zone changes. BobNamataki (talk) 00:45, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

You're Picture

I noticed the picture you uploaded, File:BloodKnightRiding.jpg and I saw that it was a big large. So I cropped out the background so the focus was on the Blood Elf. If this was against your wishes please feel free to revert it back, or reply to me (either here or on my talk page) and let me know and I'll revert it for you. I only tell you this because I am looking at the Image now, and your userpage is the only place where this picture is posted; so I assume that maybe you wanted the background for a specific reason.

If you're okay with my Cropping, then feel free to ignore this message. Thanks -- TeeSon5 (talk) 15:07, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Named Items

What are your criteria for whether an item is Named or not? Would, for instance, the Chalice of Elune be a named item? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 00:16, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

One worder, unique, the name must not represent its former owner (warglaive of ...) or deity nor its function or typo. Thus (IMO) the Chalice of Elune should not be in the category because it's composed of 3 words, there are other items with that name (Chalice of Benedictus), the name represent its typo (a chalice) and deity. --N'Nanz (talk) 10:08, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Thassarian's comment and the timeline

Sorry I really hate to practically start an edit war with you, nothing against you.

On the subject of Koltira when Thassarian made that comment, Koltira had died as a High Elf, hadn't had any positive contact with the Horde or Blood elves so he couldn't have been a Blood elf yet. So there's a clear error either on Thassarian and Orbaz being unfamiliar about High/Blood Elf or the writer being unfamiliar with the timeline. Copperblast (talk) 01:54, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Well now I really hope me pointing out that Koltira died as a High Elf doesn't led to an edit war. But this should be an interesting discussion. --Sairez (talk) 02:28, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Koltira died as a high elf (Alliance) at the hands of an undead human (Scourge) thus they were hated enemies. Now they are an undead human and an undead BLOOD ELF thus if they were alive they should be hated enemy but in undeath they aren't. Thus Thassarian's aforementioned line really makes a lot of sense. --N'Nanz (talk) 11:09, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

It still really doesn't as being an undead slave with no free will does not count as "In Life." Koltira couldn't have been a Blood elf at the time when Thassarian said that as he had no positive contact with Blood Elves or the Horde, and couldn't be addicted to magic as he's undead. If Thassarian had said that if Koltira joined the Horde then it would make some sense, as it is the line is out of place. Copperblast (talk) 18:36, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

does not count as "In Life"; Koltira couldnt' have been a Blood elf at the time; he had no positive contact with blood elf or the Horde; couldn't be addicted to magic as he's undead: do you have any source for the previous statements but your own assumptions? --N'Nanz (talk) 08:59, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Basically no characters consider being an undead slave with no free will as "in life." Koltira could not have been a Blood elf as he was an undead slave of the Lich King with no free will and there is no evidence of living Blood elves working for the Lich king. We've never seen undead who are addicted to magic even among blood elves and there is no evidence Koltira is. Copperblast (talk) 18:17, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Again: any source but your own assumptions? --N'Nanz (talk) 20:16, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
Those are obvious points in the Warcraft story, you should know them already. Copperblast (talk) 00:37, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
Warcraft: Death Knight shows Thassarian dying to the Scourge and returning as a death knight, then killing Koltira during the Scourge invasion of Quel'Thalas. The blood elves did not exist during that time, thus Koltira could not have been one. When they were both "in life" there was no reason for them to have been hated enemies. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:44, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

@copperblast: no, still only assumption of yours... for example look at the Darkfallen: they are magic addicted blood elf turned undead, learn evrything about them.

The sense of that sentence is that if they were alive (hypothesis) they should be hated enemies, not that they were enemies in life. Didn't you ever see a hypothetical sentence, didn't you??? However... do as you wish..... --N'Nanz (talk) 09:28, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
I've taken the arbitrary action of removing the whole debate from the page. If folks want to debate whether Koltira is or is not a blood elf/high elf, then Koltira Deathweaver is the obvious place. If you want to talk about whether Orbaz Bloodbane thought Koltira was, then Orbaz has a fine talk page. But the distinction is irrelevant to Thassarian and the point the trivia entry was trying to make - that Thassarian was honorable even to someone he might have opposed as a human, or been at best indifferent to by normal death knight opinions.
Another place to take the debate is to the Forums. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:05, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Tony Romano

Lord Tony Romano was recently removed from the list at House of Nobles for not having a source. Since you added his name I thought you might remember the connection you had found. —MJBurrage(TC) 19:24, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Your opinion is desired

Hey, just wanted to solicit your opinion on whether WoWWiki should leave Wikia. Thanks! --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!CSpecial:Editcount/Pcj contributions and counting) 21:42, October 5, 2010 (UTC)