Talk: Village pump/Archive12

KasoBot and connected stuff[]

KasoBot

As some of you know i've been developing KasoBot for a while for the dual purpose of A. Replacing {{tooltipcss}} type tooltips with the new {{tooltip}} B. Mass adding new items. Tonight i ran a small test run of thirty edits, this included 4 tooltipcss replacements and 26 new item imports, Contributions also, i'm keeping a record of all grey and "random suffix" items i skip over on my page. I release that this bot is fairly wide-reaching, so i'd like to check that we think that this "right" before i start making hundreds and hundreds of pages.

Connected stuff

In relation to this, theres some proposals about {{tooltip}} which i'd like to get down on paper:

effect= and elink=

Please see the infomation i posted here following on from this infomation, my conclusion is that elink= in it's current form it pretty much superfluous, and it makes more sense to just do |effect=Use: {{spelllink|99999}} then use <br /> and the same on a new line if you want to do more than one effect with a link. In relation to this my bot is coded to do the above, so if you dont want this, speak now or forever hold your peace.

itemid=

With the old tooltipcss it was possible (at least in some flavors, god knows how many there were) to have τ ω α links on the bottom if the tooltip was included in another page, whilst im not sure about this, it does seem that the tooltip is lacking and itemid field which could be use for various different things in the future. Also it seems to me that when i am editing in all these tooltips, and i have the itemID in the code, it would be a waste to not include this into the tooltip incase it is needed in the future. To that end i have included a |itemid=99999 field in all the tooltips i have made thus far, as above, if you dont want this, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Thanks for reading, any ideas/suggestions/flames welcome. --Kaso 21:27, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Posted on Template:Tooltip as to what is the "correct" way to use the effect tag. (according to Zeal)

Does adding |itemid actually affect the current tooltip? If not then sounds fine to leave it there.

You also might want to leave set items be for the moment, there is no standard with the current tooltip to include them =( I've been using |comment but that doesn't look quite right... --Psyker7 21:33, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

While there isn't a full blown policy about external links, there's been a bit of a movement lately (at least by me) to keep external links on the subject's page only. Elinks for items belong on item pages, elinks to specific boss fight videos belong on boss fight pages not instance pages. There's too many WoW DBs out there (more thatn what's in elinks, even) to effectivly remain neutral when embedding external links in other wiki pages. Besides, we want people to open the item pages here, not just skip out to thott, that's probably the biggest reason so many item pages are just stubs. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 21:59, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Tekkub - the elink referred to by Kaso is actually standing for effect link, not external links on a tooltip =) {{Spelllink|1234}} goes to another wiki page. --Psyker7 22:23, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

He might be talking about my mentioning thottbot/wowhead/allka links on tooltips in relation to itemid= i'll clarify that i'm not suggesting these return i cant say im a huge fan either, but it does seem to me that itemid is a piece of infomation that has quite alot of use, and even though we dont use it now, it might be worth "future-proofing" incase we ever do need it. --Kaso

Copied from User_talk:Kaso

I was looking at some of the stub pages created by KasoBot and I have to wonder if we really need some of these items in WoWWiki? For example: Acolyte's Shoes. I think these are the initial shoes given to level 1 priest characters. They have no abilities, no stats, nothing. I personally don't think we need items like this in the wiki. My view on what items should go in here is this:

All uncommon/green items or better.
Common/white items that are actually used (not just stuff to sell to a vendor). That means quest items, quest rewards, crafting ingredients, crafting products, etc.
Junk/grey items should be excluded.

What do you think? P.S. Nice job on the bot! - ClydeJr 16:00, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

This is one of the things that i've been most concerned about, i'm glad to have some opinion on it, It does seem a bit inappropriate for me to go adding thousands of items that people don't actually want :>

As far as i can see there's two possible takes on this

Add all items for sake of completeness, WoWWiki is "dedicated to cataloging [the] Warcraft Universe"
Add only "useful" items like you describe.

I also am leaning slightly towards the "less is more" point of view, i mean its alot easier to add more items than it is to remove existing items, then again this also introduces a slight difficulty on my side, telling items apart has different challenges on my end of things, I mean, quest items/quest starting items, i can tell easily, but crafting ingredients/products isnt easily detectable for me, perhaps it would be better if that in this first "sweep" i miss out white items all together and just focus on green/blue/purple, i can always go back and add the whites should it be needed. --Kaso 09:39, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Every "white" item (with a handful of exceptions, http://www.wowhead.com/?item=13159, http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23355, etc) have a purpose. Even those without a purpose are of note, because it is helpful to know something is useless and can be discarded. So, I would recommend including white items, as they are often the most confusing. Every one knows what to do with a Mercenary Blade of the Monkey. Ichor of Undeath is a little less obvious.--Mlucero 10:49, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Baggins, admin[]

Welcome him! :) Kirkburn talk contr 18:35, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Once on IRC, once on here, Welcome !

--Ady _s 18:47, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Begone evil! ... Wha? in my society, this is a way of saying "Hi!" ==Patrigan-Talk/Contr-SH (EU) 18:49, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Welcome to the club! // Montagg (talk · contr) 22:58, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Grats! --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 02:30, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

I've got my welcome for you somewhere in my pants, lemme dig it out... TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 08:52, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

On a similar note, if anyone has suggestions for future admins, contact me on the IRC channel as I can now add new ones. Currently the main purpose of new admins is to help fight vandalism, so reasonably frequent contributers are preferred. Remember, anyone is welcome to join and idle on the IRC channel! Kirkburn talk contr 08:37, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

Brothers, please join hands to complete the Summoning of the Doomguard in honor of our newest fellow... Remember, new guy gets his soul sacced! --Hobinheim (talk · contr) 09:14, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Thanks, all.Baggins 16:33, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Cue the Infernal!--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 16:37, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Guild naming policy needs resolution[]

If you have a moment, please go to the WoWWiki guild policy page and vote on the guild article naming policy. Currently there are three options: 1) All guilds are followed by their server name in parentheses, 2) All guilds are followed by their server and country code in parentheses with specific rules in case of conflicts, or 3) Guilds exist in the Guild: name space with clean disambigs and similar naming rules to option #2.

To warn you, there is a lot of discussion on the page. Please read if you are able. More importantly, we need votes to finalize the policy and get some relevant info on the main page for guild editors. // Montagg (talk · contr) 23:03, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

I suggest we move the older talk stuff from the previous proposal to an archive page, it's a bit confusing now -watchout 00:32, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

My god the discussion on Option 3 is massive. I'm about to fall asleep anyway, so I'm not even gonna try right now. I vote for 3, and put forth the following question without reading any of the discussion... *grin*

Why does it need to be so complex? "Guild: Name (Server US)" is simple, to the point, and avoids any collisions. "Guild: Name" can always be a disambig if people feel the need. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 01:39, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

That's actually discussion for all options. It just happens to be under the last one. I archived the previous discussion and the proposal text and separated the proposal from the vote and the votes from the comments. The most recent comments are still there with a link to the old discussion. Should be less unwieldy now. Edit: In addition to the guild namespace proposal (option 3), I drafted some full policy text for it. // Montagg (talk · contr) 16:33, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

Tusva had made in the past a very interesting proposition, that has been repeated on the page, for Server:Servername US/Guildname. Any consideration about it? --Ady _s 21:12, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

Hrm... quite like that idea actually. --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 23:25, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

I do remember some discussion of that. I don't recall the conclusions reached, but for me, making guild articles subpages of their server removes the autonomy from the guild. Generally, subpages support the main page, and a guild article is pretty independent. Guilds can move, split, or die, and the server/guild heirarchy doesn't quite reflect that. Sometimes longer guild articles also have their own subpages, creating an even more complex heirarchy. ~

The biggest reason for me was it's easier to link articles with namespaces and parentheses -- anything with a namespace or with a trailing parenthetical can be reduced to a plain link just by adding a pipe (|) character. Example: [[Guild:The Mighty Guild (Arthas US)|]] becomes simply "The Mighty Guild." // Montagg (talk · contr) 16:29, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

The vote on WW:GUILD has concluded, and we now have a Guild namespace. However, we actually need to implement this policy, which means going through Category:Guilds and making sure all guilds follow the correct naming conventions by moving them to new homes with correct article names. The boilerplate should also be updated to reflect the new naming style. I'll help with this where I can, but I'm mad busy this week, so I'd really appreciate if some volunteers would do a little moving here, a little there, and we can eventually have it all done. // Montag (talk · contr) 23:56, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Actually, we don't have a "Guild:" namespace. Check e.g. Special:Allpages. No "Guild" in the dropdown. We don't have a "Server" namespace either. The difference? "Guild talk:Foobar" (namespace) vs "Talk:Guild:Foobar" (fake namespace). Plus fake namespaces can't have unique settings applied to them (which there actually are a number of in mediawiki). Mikk (T) 12:54, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

WoWWiki Facebook Group[]

WoWWiki now has a Facebook group: WoWWiki Addicts

If you're on Facebook, feel free to join up. Admins, let me know who you are so I can give you officership. // Montagg (talk · contr) 17:01, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Joined, invited Hob too. :) Kirkburn talk contr 17:38, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Well, if everyone else is doing it.-_Ragestorm (talk · contr) 17:55, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Now everyone has to work out who is who :) Safe to say, I'm the one with the photo unbecoming of a bureaucrat. Kirkburn talk contr 20:24, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

No arguments here. -_Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:39, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Spoons are dangerous, I tell you. Kirkburn talk contr 21:03, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

You have been officered, Kirk. Not sure who else is who, so I made a discussion topic for posting aliases. Get to it! // Montagg (talk · contr) 00:16, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Server:Vashj[]

Could someone please assist on this server page? A couple of the more immature members of the server keep editing the page to make it basically full of insults and nasty comments. They are doing similar things on my guild page for Enigma. Tyka 08:27, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Done, will keep an eye on the page and user :) <Kiltek> blah / spam 10:29, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for your help! It’s much appreciated. Any chance you (or anyone else) could possibly do the same on Enigma (Vashj) and the other pages that user has amended? Tyka 11:33, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Looks like mudkipz is at it again on Server:Vashj. :-( Tyka 11:36, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Please report vandalism on WoWWiki:Known Vandals in future! Thanks :) Kirkburn talk contr 13:12, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Image Categories[]

I've been the past few weeks working a bit on categorizing images, since it's something that we badly lack at the moment on the wiki. I usually divide them into big categories and we can eventually later on split them into smaller ones. A few examples: Category:Zone screenshots, Category:Adapted game screenshots, etc.

However, I was wondering what people would think of categorizing images with what they represent (not talking about item screenshots here though). Example, Image:Abomination.png would be categorized into Category:Abominations. Image:Aldrassil.jpg into Category:Teldrassil. Any objections about that? --Ady _s 20:47, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Cross-catting is not a bad thing, imo. It is what makes a wiki so effective. :)--Sky (t · c · w) 21:12, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Another example discussed on the IRC channel: Image:Anduinwrynn.jpg --Ady _s 22:37, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Elinks standardization (Rank 2)[]

So we've got our happy {{Elinks-item}} and the like that auto-create an external links list for sites that use a common ID (usually the game's), but what about those other screw sites like AmpWoW, who recently added their icon into the wiki? Here's my idea...

Each site gets a generic template, like I pushed AmpWoW's into {{Elink-ampwow}} (note that's NOT "elinks"). This is a fairly simple template as you can see. If we make one of these for each site we can enforce a consistant structure to the elinks. Now I also see that a lot of sites don't simply link, but try to add a description as well. So why not throw in an optional 2nd parameter. For example {{Elink-ampwow|http://somelink.goes.here/|This is a sample link}} would end up looking like this:

AmpWoW AmpWoW This is a sample link

Sound acceptable to everyone? Comments? TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 03:52, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Sounds good to me, it would clean up some of the links we have at the bottom of most boss pages too - AmpWoW is used a lot now, and iirc it's mostly for tactics? Therefore your optional description idea would be great, so the "clicker" knows exactly what they're going to be presented with. I might also be able to incorporate it into Template:Questbox Perhaps? <Kiltek> blah / spam 05:16, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Ampwow pages have tabs, like WoWHead... I've been removing the links to the tabs that I see, changing the links to point to the base page for the subject. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 09:20, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Use http://www.ampwow.com/wow/viewNewItems/16833-test2142456356456.php for AmpWow links. they seem to ignore anything after the item ID, but we should provide them a hint why there was a weird link, we should use something like http://www.ampwow.com/wow/viewNewItems/ItemID-fromWoWWiki.php

Use the same for mobs: http://www.ampwow.com/wow/viewNewCreatures/11502-weirdlinksorry.php -watchout 09:47, 21 March 2007 (EDT) (sorry, forgot the sig before)

Those need to go in the respective Elinks- templates, which would in turn use {{Elink-ampwow}}. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 12:29, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

why? -watchout 13:56, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Because I said so. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 15:15, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

ok dad :P -watchout 05:35, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

ah, now I understand what you mean with that template... well, but the list-markup "*" should be in the elinks-item template IMO -watchout 12:51, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Considering AmpWow was added, do you guys plan to add other great WoW database sites such as Warcry, Curse's DB, Goblin Workshop, or even WoWd.org to the template?</sarcasm>

I suggest that you keep a maximum of 2-3 links (the most relevant sites) in the template. Swarmie 17:44, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

I agree. 2-3 links is fine for repeated data. Once we start to push that number, we can remove links based on the quality of the information they lead to. // Montagg (talk · contr) 12:31, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

On the other hand, its "not fair" to the other datamining pages out there... -watchout 12:48, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Well, unless you plan on adding *all* databases to the template (Warcry, Curse's DB, Goblin Workshop, WoWd.org, Wowguru, and those other crappy ones), it's not going to be "fair" for them. In other words, it will never be "fair" as you can't list all of them. As I said, I suggest that you keep the 3 most relevant ones and they will deal with that. Swarmie 14:36, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

The wiki is neutral and unbiased, remember? Picking and choosing who we link to is a very specific bias. If we *try* to put everyone in it will become a nightmare, yes. While I'm not entirely sure we should even keep using the elinks templates, I do want to put this idea out there...

Allow any edits done in the proper section (External Links only!), that is directly relevant to the page's topic (links to a boss strat belongs on the boss page, not on the instance's page). Basically, keep what we have, and allow anyone who plays by the rules to add their links. The existing stuff could be moved out of the elinks-* templates by a bot, so that no perticular bias is shown by the site's templates. An added bonus of doing this would be that a bot could also crawl pages and randomly shuffle the order of the elink items, since the sorting is another hot topic we can't seem to solve. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 15:19, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

*Added comment, for more clearity on my stance* ... We don't have to include every data site out there, what we should do is welcome the users and admins of those site to add their own elinks into the pages. AmpWoW's been doing this lately, and I welcome it even if that site isn't my personal first choice. I think what we should be doing is encouraging those people to earn their own links by making their own edits, instead of just getting "free advertising" from us just because they use the "proper" ids in their URLs. It is unfair to remove links which have already been established in pages... be it by user edits or by inclusion in the current template. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 15:24, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Hello, hope i'm doing this ok, not familiar to Wikis. Clicking on AmpWow resulted in "disk checking" style adware for me. This type of advertisement is a nuisance and a risk ; links to AmpWow shouldn't be included, in my opinion.

Heavy Leather Ball...why?[]

I was just wondering what the purpose was for the Leatherworking item Heavy Leather Ball. Theres no entry in the wiki for it so I was going to create one then I realized...I really dont know what to say about it. Any thoughts would be good. PLus can horde leatherworkers make them?

I believe the Heavy Leather Ball is used for levelling your Leather Working skill and as a fun item. Some of my guild have fun trying to see how many balls they can pile into someone else's backpack. Tyka 03:30, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Also makes some humorous fake ballgames in the capitols. --Zedric 06:30, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Everyone loves playing with their balls TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 16:54, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Not everyone likes playing with other people's though, Tek :o Kirkburn talk contr 17:02, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

and then my food didn't taste good anymore /cry ==Patrigan-Talk/Contr-SH (EU) 17:06, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

What's wrong with a few extra balls in your sack? TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 17:07, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Other than the fact that they take a lot of bagspace and the fact that you'll probably want to empty your bag faster than normal, nothing I guess... ==Patrigan-Talk/Contr-SH (EU) 17:09, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Careful now, you don't want to empty your ball sack too fast. Um, that's enough of that conversation. Kirkburn talk contr 17:32, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Kirk's a premature leatherworker and he seems ashamed of it... TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 18:05, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

New navboxes[]

So, we all know navboxes are awesome ({{races}} and {{Burning Legion}} for example). But what else do people think should get them? A couple of suggestions of mine:

Warcraft III main characters
Prominent Alliance members, etc
Religions
Retcons?

I find they're much better than categories for most navigation, so I would love people's thoughts and ideas! Kirkburn talk contr 19:19, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Add T:War3mainchars to that list! :]--Sky (t · c · w) 23:49, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

My personal policy for navboxes has always been any set group of things that's rigidly defined. That's why I've always stayed out of lore things. Subzones, weapons, spells, class thingies, etc. Sets that you know have an absolute definition of what stays in and what stays out. Other than that, it's just an aid to bind similar pages together. Pages that you know people would visit in rotation due to their relationship to one another. I.e. don't bother binding pages that don't have anything to do with one another.--Hobinheim (talk · contr) 15:31, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

I somewhat have to agree with hob, but on the other hand... If the nav doesn't take up the whole screen, I guess it might prove useful from time to time. ==Patrigan-Talk/Contr-SH (EU) 18:59, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

The boxes always go at the very end of a page, and I find them an immense help when looking for further info on certain topics. Far, FAR better than category navigation in any case. Added {{Religions}}! Kirkburn talk contr 22:43, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Definately better than categories as the similar pages are listed right there. Go for it I say =) --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 00:16, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Envenom[]

I reworked the Envenom page a bit. Since i'm a newb, i'd like some peer review on it. --Poposhka 17:16, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

I saw the work you did, I must say, for a "newb" it's quite nice. Certain that you haven't done this before? Keep up the good work! ==Patrigan-Talk/Contr-SH (EU) 18:57, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

He he, thankee. Well, I basically just followed the Sinister Strike page, so not much thought involved. thanks though.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Poposhka (talk • contr).

I would say that 'doses' reads a bit strangely.... prehaps 'stacks' or something instead /shrug. No biggie.

Remember you can sign your comments with ~~~~ --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 00:13, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Announcing the Warcraft pump![]

Since this page was becoming unmaintainable with the deluge of off-topic discussions, we have created the funky new Warcraft pump.

All general discussions not specifically to do with WoWWiki or WoWWiki articles should go there.
Please move any such topics which appear here to there.
It is also linked on the left navbar (I have also given the sidebar links a bit of an update).
Remember, WoWWiki is not a forum. If you want to have a huge long-winded discussion about the relative merits of a Mr. Cheesewhipple's Mace of Smooshing (+3) compared to an Evil Steamroller, sometimes it's best just to go somewhere else.

Thanks! Kirkburn talk contr 00:44, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

I must say, very good idea whoever's it was. --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 00:45, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Second that. Good call. // Montagg (talk · contr) 11:12, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

why not move village pump off the main navigation bar or put it near the bottom of the list? Oh, someone should have cleaned up the comments before moving the WOW related stuff to warcraft pump Sharlin

How about just making a "forum" ? like [1] ace2, has done. This should have severely huge benefits for readability,, and topics. tbh 1 page full of stuff doesn't read very nicely. - CJ talk / cont 07:47, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

Would love to know why my section about me reworking the Tier 4/5 Images was move to the Warcraft Pump... <Kiltek> blah / spam 07:54, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

Added it back below. Regarding a forum, it's been tried once before - it was too 'separate' from the wiki to be useful. We already have an IRC channel and talk pages. Kirkburn talk contr 15:28, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

Tier 4 & 5 Image Additions[]

As some of you may have noticed, I rolled out some images for a few classes in Tier 4 to replace some old, poor and (some) data mined images that were in place.

I've done this to match the images that display on the official website when displaying Armor Sets (although it isn't currently there) and ensured the name of the Set is in the image. I've made a point of NOT including any signatures or watermarks - because I don't need to prove to anyone that I created these images myself, and it's also simply not needed.

I'm going to go ahead and do the same for Tier 5. I'll eventually add in some Horde images too, thus having two images on each armor page showing each faction; it's only fair!

There are a few problems, however. The Warlock, Hunter and Druid Tier 4 seem to have items missing from within my files, which means I can't load them into WoW Model Viewer just yet, but I will work to try and resolve this.

If anyone has any more suggestions feel free to give them here, but would appreciate these images being left alone, and if you do add images of your own, please make them consistent with mine :) <Kiltek> blah / spam 06:34, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

The images you submitted look nice, the pally T4 Draenei was a cap I did from the dressing frame, hence it was rather small. And screw fair, do everything in male tauren or male draenei, all the other races are ugly... Okey and male dorfs... TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 08:48, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Hehe, I'm only using models that show a fair representation of how the armor looks in game - So Night Elfs, Humans, Orcs and Blood Elfs will be my prefered choice - since none of them have Hoofs! And besides, if I wasn't fair it would be all Alliance... you damn Horde scum! Oh also, the Pally Armor cap looks crap because the Armor IS crap, I get to dress in crap while Rogues get to look like Comic book figures, so unfair! <Kiltek> blah / spam 09:04, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

If you're missing items from the list in WoW Model Viewer, check out this thread from their forum. It shows how to add data to the items.csv file using info from the XML data on Allakhazam's site. It was very useful when I found some items were missing from mine - ClydeJr 13:02, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Community teams![]

I have restarted work on the WoWWiki:Community teams change. Any admins and helpers please go and discuss and help out! Pages to be updated, sections to be written, articles to be sorted, members to be chosen! Kirkburn talk contr 05:53, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

WC III Main Characters[]

I noticed the list on WC III Main characters (when looking at Antonidas' page) and I was wondering if we're not missing some names...Imo these names deserve some credit too:

Rexxar (he had an entire campaign of his own...)

Varimatras (prominent role in forsaken storyline)

Maybe Guldan? (being the reason for Illidan's "betrayal" and Sargeras' eye in TFT)

Maybe Lord Garitos (being featured in both human and undead campaigns)

Now we could ad balnazzar and Detheroc too, as well as Chen Stormstout and Rokhan, but I think that the list will drift off too much...

I'd like to hear your opinions, before rashingly editing the page (after I found out how to...) -- HEMA 16:39, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

I personally, am against that list, because practically any lorestrong character which appeared in WC3 should be on that list. What's the reasoning behind "add" and "don't add". ==Patrigan-Talk/Contr-SH (EU) 16:55, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

T:War3mainchars. I made it partly on a whim to aid navigating around the lore articles. It does need updating and perhaps a change of direction. It could be changed to just be a general "main lore character" navbox. As for what belongs on it, common sense should dictate that - it just shouldn't be too big. Kirkburn talk contr 19:04, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

I have reformatted it into factions, and for it to be suitable for WC chars from all ages. Obviously only the most important NPCs should make their way onto the template. Please suggest and/or add your own! Kirkburn talk contr 20:49, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Main page update![]

I have been working on an update for the main page to:

Incorporate a featured article section (weekly change, I reckon).
Allow more news articles to be shown.
Have a simpler design.
Take up less space.

See it here - User:Kirkburn/Dev2. I need ideas and suggestions!! Kirkburn talk contr 19:02, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Move the WoWWiki news and Featured Article to the top, above the selected article index.
Warcraft news should be part of the navigation bar on the left.
selecte article section needs to have items removed, its too cluttered. Suggest reducing to single link the UI/Customization, Community Info, and forum trackers.

Sharlin

More feedback can be found here - User talk:Kirkburn/Dev2. I've made several updates since the announcement, check them out! I'm not sure any links can be removed from the list, they're all very different areas of the wiki, and putting news and FA will just make the wiki harder to navigate for those on smaller monitors. Kirkburn talk contr 17:07, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

If you don't put the FA on top then whats the point? Those with smaller monitors may never see it, in other words you have the very same problem you describe of it being harder to navigate. the Navigation panel needs to change. Has anyone bothered to check to see how often each link is ever used? If not then whats the point of redesigning the front page?

In other words, unless ya'll have examined the link usage of what your putting up now the only thing your going to accomplish is just making the page even bigger with the FA. Sharlin

The links on the front page are not for listing the most popular pages on the wiki, they're for listing the different sections of the wiki. And, yes, we do look at how popular they are. I should also mention that the redesign is only a couple of pixels longer than the current design, with a hell of a lot more content. Anyway, how is a paragraph with a single link more useful than the small link farm? Kirkburn talk contr 11:27, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

So its only to make things prettier, not better, now I get it. Sharlin

Okay, let's not get confrontational now. Of course it's not "just" to make it prettier. The FA and news section is not for navigation - how would putting it on top help navigation? If you can suggest improvements to the nav, that would help. I can see about making the FA section better linked or something, but suggestions help. Kirkburn talk contr 19:15, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

The background of each section should be the same.... preferably a dark color so as to provide contrast which is needed for people with vision problems. I think that red/maroon background should only be used for small areas the require much emphasis. Sharlin

The Black Morass[]

Can we please please please please consolidate all of these articles, or better yet delete a few.

Because I recently revamped the entire article for [8] but it didn't update [9] for some reason, and now there is an updated and non-updated for each page and it's driving me insane.

But doesn't my article look better? --Ithar 17:31, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

I guess someone updated the last article, thank you. --Ithar 18:08, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

This belonged on the Village pump, not the Warcraft pump.
According to this edit [10], you removed an entire article and thus caused half the problems.
I've now gone over it all and sorted out what I can. Kirkburn talk contr 19:39, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Gems or Jewels?[]

Okey, this has been brought up before, but a recent edit to Jewel has brought the issue back to my attention, so I'm gonna complain. We've got this nice page about all the new socketable gems that were added in the expansion. It's full of wonderful useful data to help people pick what gems they want to buy. However the page says, near the top... "The term "gem" is often used interchangeably (and improperly) with "jewel"." This statement in it's self is wrong. "Gem" and "jewel" are interchangeable, in fact what we are stating is that "gem" means an uncut stone, which is not true. According to Wikipedia, a gemstone may be polished or faceted. Cutting a stone does not mean it is no longer a gemstone. Also, the definition of 'jewel' is "A precious stone; a gem."

So now, what is my point? We're very inconsistent with our nomenclature with regards to the shiny socketables. Blizzard has been very consistent with the new items, they call things that go into sockets gems and give them icons of cut stones. I have only seen them use the word "jewel" in regards to a socketable stone once: [Bag of Jewels], which can hold cut and uncut stones. All the new raw minerals are given rough stone icons, not faceted. Yes, the old pre-BC icons for raw gems show facets, and that's probably why we tried to make a distinction.

So considering the consistent nomenclature Blizzard has used for these new items, I propose we adopt it as well. It will help reduce any confusion between what we say and what the game says, and we will stop imposing an incorrect idea on our visitors. We should edit all pages to refer to socketable items as gems, and raw trade goods as minerals or uncut gems. Only use the term "jewel" for items in the game that specifically use the word, like [The Queen's Jewel], or in reference to "jewelry" like rings and necklaces. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 19:47, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

I completely agree. Kirkburn talk contr 19:56, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm assuming this means we move the current Gem to either Uncut gems or Minerals and move Jewel to Gem. Also it looks like Gem needs to be updated to include prospecting as a source, and mob-mining (minable mobs appear to only drop minerals, no metal ore) TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 20:02, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Pages have been moved and tagged for cleanup. I can't edit them right now, in the middle of moving back to Denver. If noone else gets to it I'll do it when I can. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 10:19, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

While I agree there is some confusion over the terminology, I think that most, if not all, of it comes from the fact that blizz calls the profession "Jewelcrafting". This would insinuate that most of what a jewelcrafter crafts are, in fact, jewels. I think the best solution is for Blizz to rename the profession to gemcrafter, but since that won't happen, I truly beleive that this confusion will persist, regardless of how you sort things, or reference the only other item with the name Jewel. FWIW. Sorcen 16:10, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Featured articles![]

Another project! In conjuction with the previously mentioned proposed Main Page update, we need to start up the FA project. I need input and help in getting it off the ground! Any help is appreciated :)

See WoWWiki:Featured article. Kirkburn talk contr 22:20, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

Not sure where to ask this, but model change rules.[]

Blizzard's EULA says I can't edit their game files, but what if I'm doing it for looks? I'm not doing this to move walls, or make nodes bigger, just change what a weapon looks like to another... is this safe? And how do they figure it out anyway? If I'm going to get banned, I'm copying back the backup file asap. I just changed it w/ a hex program. I just want my weapons look more cool >:( --Colinstu 00:32, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

WoWWiki talk:Warcraft pump.--Sky (t · c · w) 00:35, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

Image:Ampwow.jpg[]

For some reason someone changed the Ampwow logo, and then removed all the old versions of it, any chance we can recover it or why it was changed to File:Icon-ampwow-22x22.png —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kiltek (talk • contr).

Was me, I deleted only the duplicates though (see). The problem with the new one is it's a 30x30 icon and makes the Elinks template look "odd". If you could bring it to 22x22 (and convert it to png) feel free to upload it somewhere and an admin will upload it at Image:Icon-ampwow-22x22.png. --Ady _s 10:22, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Need Help[]

Hi my guild is new and i would like to add my guild to the sentinels server ( Snakes Castle)how can i do this friends?

Thank You.

--Snakelord 11:34, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Here's an easy way to start a page: type: [[Snakes Castle (Sentinels)]]

in a page (either a page you want to link to your new page, or a personal test page), and the follow the red link: Snakes Castle (Sentinels) Then you can edit the page like normal. Make sure you read the Guild Page Policy. -- SeiferTim ( talk · contribs ) 12:55, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Navigation Bar[]

A slight issue I encountered with the navigation panel on the left... it is not in the same consistent order across different pages. This is minor at best and highly annoying at worst as when I get bored, I sit there clicking on "Random page" and reading whatever comes up (I've learned some pretty interesthing things doing this, heh). So when the random page link switches positions... I'm now clicking on Community Portal or Recent Changes or something.

Is there something an admin-type person could do to reformat the pages (a script or something? I don't know how the navigation data is saved, but a database script would do it if that data is recorded there) so that the links are consistently in the same place? --Azhdeen 14:14, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

By the way... I should point out that the navigation bar changes when not logged into the Wiki. --Azhdeen 14:26, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Eh, and while I'm on the warpath, would it be possible to add some support to include some criteria for the "random page" function to work within? For example say... BC content? Items? Instances? Class info? UI modications? Etc? I'm not really searching for anything specific, but there is a lot of articles that are irrelevant or uninformational to me. This would require each page to be clearly listed with a content-type of some sort that can be searched for (I don't know if this is done already) hence why I am asking if it is possible. --Azhdeen 14:38, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

The list absolutely should not change between being logged out and different pages - sounds like you need to refresh your browser cache (normally Ctrl+F5). The list was very recently updated. As for criteria for random page - not as far as I know, sorry. Kirkburn talk contr 19:23, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm now at home on a *brand new computer* that I built just over a week ago. This is the first time the computer has ever browsed to WoWWiki and I still get the morphing navigation bar when not logged in. Too bad about the random page criteria... that would make that function more useful and informative... but it's still pretty fun. As for the navigation bar, I'll find 2 specific pages as an example in a minute or two. --Azhdeen 00:55, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Here we go....

(the first two have "Random Page" third link from the bottom) http://www.wowwiki.com/Four_of_Elementals http://www.wowwiki.com/Taerar

(Whoops, now it is the 5th link at the top. Donations has taken it's place) http://www.wowwiki.com/Keepers_of_the_Night

(Back to third from the bottom) http://www.wowwiki.com/Bloodclot_Band

(Random Page is technically still the third from the bottom... but the navigation bar is significantly shorter. IRC Channel Info, Warcraft Pump, and Search Wiki is missing... along with a minor reshuffle of some of the other links) http://www.wowwiki.com/GeoWar

(Back to the full Nav bar with Random Page 5th in the list) http://www.wowwiki.com/Known_issues

I could keep going, of course, but I think you get the picture. It is impossible for me to have ANY of those pages pre-cached as this computer has never ever browsed to the Wiki before tonight. I hope this is just a database issue as that could, possibly, be pretty easy to fix (hello update script) or possibly fixing something involving the permissions/template that guest browsers are given (since this only occurs while logged out). If the navbar data isn't stored in a database or it's not a guest template issue... well... crap :p Here's hoping there's an easy way to make the navigation bar consistent across pages. --Azhdeen 01:03, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Seriously, I have no idea what could cause it. I have never seen it occur (with frequent and thorough browsing, logged in and out, on two PCs), and yours is the only report of it occuring. Anyone else? (this is the page which controls it MediaWiki:Sidebar) Kirkburn talk contr 01:39, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

I love stuff like this, heh (sarcasm). These are the worst kinds of issues - ones that are unreproduceable. Did you try logging out and clicking on the links I pasted? I'll give it another shot as I'm back on the computer I typically browse through the Wiki with. I still find it strange that it doesn't occur when I am logged in, so my only thought is that the sidebar template takes effect only when logged in (regardless if it's supposed to always be in effect). By the way... I took some screenshots of the behavior with the Keepers of the Night page. Is there a place I can dump the jpgs? Or do I have to deal with something like photobucket? --Azhdeen 09:22, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Favicon![]

Yes, it's here. If you're not seeing it in IE, don't worry, it may just take a while. For FF users, visit [11], reload it, then come back here. Should then appear :) Kirkburn talk contr 22:21, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

For those who still cannot see it, try browsing WoWWiki without the www. :) Kirkburn talk contr 17:15, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Thank you for adding this,(I'm using FF) I have all my bookmarks on the top bar w/out the name of the site, so I got to have an icon! It was the generic blank page 'till now! TY --Colinstu 16:03, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Very classy! I love it!--K ) (talk) 12:43, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

Looks kinda ugly on a non-white background. The original icon from The Iconfactory has alpha, why not use it here? (When referencing a favicon from a <link> tag, it's possible to use any format, even PNG.) Gazmik Fizzwidget T · C · W 00:43, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Warlock Articles[]

Is it just me, or does the entirety of the Warlock information seem very redundant and cluttered? I find even the category organization a little confusing. I think these articles are in serious need of some TLC. I'd be willing to work on it with some others, if we wanted to get together an unofficial team. --DuTempete 22:25, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

No, you're right. The lock articles, as with many class/tactics articles are in need of a lot of love. On my todo list of course. If you'd like to get started and have any questions, please don't hesitate to post.--Hobinheim (talk · contr) 22:45, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

DuTempete & Hobinheim, why not create a temporary project team? Make your own dev page on your own user pages (something like User:Hobinheim/Warlock Project) and work with it from there, that way you're not going to be mass editting (and thus spamming edits on one article) and you can work together in your own space. <Kiltek> blah / spam 04:33, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, I think I will do that. It will be a nice place to sketch out what needs to be done, too. So I'll put it at User:DuTempete/Warlock project, and if anyone wants to participate, that's where I'll have everything I'm working on. Since we're working on full articles, we may want to consider having more than one project page for it, too. --DuTempete 12:29, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Leatherworking[]

Could some please check (as I'm not a leather worker) whether the information about changing your specific Mastery is still possible. That section refers to a specific patch, as well as a specific date. However someone in the Chat Channel set up on my home server to help people weren't too sure about this so called "profession respecc" and when someone tried to go to their trainer, they weren't given this option.

Have a feeling someone is getting this confused with Blacksmithing, where you can change Mastery. <Kiltek> blah / spam 04:54, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

According to the sticky post on the Professions forum, what is in the Leatherworking article is pretty much spot on.

4.3 Can I ever switch to another path?

- As of patch 2.0.3, you may switch to another path by visiting the trainer for your current specialization and choosing the option to un-learn the skill. This will cost you 100g. Then, seek out Narain Soothfancy's house, near Steamwheedle Port in Tanaris, and read his book on Soothsaying to choose your new path.

- By un-learning a specialization, you will lose all patterns that require a specialization to make. You will not lose any skill points that you already have. (Note that after 2.0.3, all pre-expansion specialized patterns are no longer specialized, so you will not lose them if you switch specialization.)

- There is no restriction on the number of times you may change paths. Just remember that, each time you do, it costs you 100g and you lose any specialized patterns you knew.

So it looks like the info is correct. It just might need to be cleaned up a little in the article. - ClydeJr 12:07, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

NPCBox Template and Boss Pages Revamp[]

So I've been experimenting with changing the Questbox Template, as well as looking at how Boss Pages should be constructed.

Visit User:Kiltek/Dev to take a look at my NPC box template changes. What I'd like to do is move the NPC box to the right, moving the Karazhan Nav Box to it's original position and placing the TOC either below the NPC Box or just to the left of the Karazhan Nav Box.

But I need some helping working out how to align the NPC box to the left, as I'm experienced in HTML, but the Wiki language is a little different!

Any help, feedback and suggestions hugely appreciated! --<Kiltek> blah / spam 06:14, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Anyone able to tell me how I can get the text to wrap around the NPC Template? Tried a lot of things, nothing to avail :( User:Kiltek/Dev --<Kiltek> blah / spam 06:19, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

I like the addition to the NPC box! :) I'll see if I can fix it for ya (don't know that it can be fixed...)--Sky (t · c · w) 03:37, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

Copyright Policy?[]

Just curious, since the copyright policy seems a bit murky in this regard (but I'm no copyright expert): does the policy cover things outside of Blizzard's IP? I'm wondering since I stumbled across a guild page on my server (Imperium of Man on Server:Sisters of Elune US ) that has basically a direct rip from the Warhammer 40k Rulebook/Novels/Splatbooks. Not trying to stir up trouble, but the page is so close to the (uncited) source material that it just makes me wonder. --Alberich 16:40, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

If it is direct quotes, yes, it should really be changed and/or cited. Kirkburn talk contr 16:49, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

In my experience, unless there is money being made by someone violating a copyright, there is little recourse for the copyright holder. Additionally, there is little motivation for the copyright holder to spend valuable time to enforce their copyright. Much of it becomes a question of personal morals and ethics, where profit isn't involved. Sorcen 16:15, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

WoWWiki:Signature[]

Check out WoWWiki:Signature (shortcut WW:SIG) for a guide to signature making on the wiki. If you already have a custom signature, add it to the "Sig Parade" at the end of the page! Kirkburn talk contr 18:25, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Much more has now been added to the page, and I've turned it into a WoWWiki:Guideline. Kirkburn talk contr 20:44, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

You added my sig without permission! *cough* ^.^ --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 02:11, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Yeahhhh... what's up with that? ;P--Sky (t · c · w) 02:42, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Printable page versions[]

The printable versions of pages show up quite frequently in Google searches. Unfortunately, there's no easy link that I can find back to the original version of a page. This would be handy; if it's easily added I would definitely vote for doing so.

Also, the printable versions aren't very... readable... at least, in my browser. Is this hard to fix? I'm assuming it's non-trivial due to how long it's been like this (seems like the same issue as with the preferences page).

--Fin 20:57, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Yes this is not something we've got access to. But gonna look into it - the link should be easily added. As for the rest.. uhm yeah. --Ady _s 07:02, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Crafted Items[]

If the article contains information that is on the recipe article, such as materials, and where the recipe drops, is that considered redundant? -- DuTempete talk | contr 21:39, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

I wouldn't say so. Sounds useful to me, so no reason not to keep it. // Montagg (talk · contr) 10:37, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Image not working[]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Recipe:_Transmute_Primal_Earth_to_Water

Image isnt working for me, needs a fix I suppose.

--Rhonin 21:56, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Well go fix it! =P <Kiltek> blah / spam 04:55, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

A lot of the icons have recently been missing... did someone change a template or something? How does that happen? --Colinstu 16:05, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

A lot of people forget the .png on the end. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 16:20, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Actually at one point the {{Icon}} template did not require the .png in there. The template was later changed to need the extension. This broke all the pages that were missing the .png extension. - ClydeJr 17:40, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Edit summaries request![]

I have a request to make - please can everyone make sure that, as much as possible, they make use of the Edit Summary box when making changes. It makes it much easier to track changes that way. Even if it's a simple '+' to shows you're adding to a discussion, even the tiniest little bit helps! Thanks Kirkburn talk contr 08:10, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

If you want the wiki to remind you to enter Edit Summaries .... go to your Preferences, Editing tab, and tick the last option "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary". Kirkburn talk contr 09:05, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Interesting Times[]

It's been a while, but I thought I might relink this Scrolls of Lore discussion regarding the wiki. Why WoWWiki is the devil. Interesting points were made by both sides, and you'll perhaps notice why I made the "Edit Summary" comment above. Kirkburn talk contr 08:23, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm surprised about the lore criticism. Although they pick out the most obscure subjects to crucify, so I suppose they're setting themselves up for failure there. I'm also surprised at their negative experiences with correcting the wiki. These guys obviously have good lore creds; intelligence isn't something we abhor. ::Shrug.:: Odd bunch of blokes. // Montagg (talk · contr) 10:35, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Possible to download WoWWiki? If so... how?[]

Hey all, soon ill be going away for 3 months due to work, having no net acces, now i'm a bit of an amateur fan fiction writer and i was wondering, is it possible to take this gigantic source of information with me?

And if so how? I have tried a couple of website downloading programs but these seem to break after only 2 to 3 links deep...

Now as i understand it, Wiki itself sometimes provides old dumps of their site, that you can simply save and download. Is this also possible with this cousin site?

--Oakly 16:11, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

I am spamming Recent Changes?[]

I am working on a bot on my Sandbox and I just realized I was probably spamming recent changes. I checked and sure enough about 20 entries on the RC page are my bot updates. I am actually going to work on another part of the harness for a while and so won't be doing any more spammy type updates on the sandbox. However, in the future is there a way to stop my sandbox changes from going up on RC? Kitan 23:05, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Make a user (such as User:KitanBot), and ask an admin to tag it as a bot. That should do it.--Sky (t · c · w) 23:15, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

I would suggest creating a bot account such as 'KitanBot', which we can flag as a bot once we're satisfied with its reliability - changes made by it won't show up on the RC list by default. Edit: too slow. /me rawrs at Sky Kirkburn talk contr 23:17, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Ok I will do so. I just hadn't done it because I figured you would want to see some actual results before tagging a user as a bot. Like I said, I will be working on some of the harness stuff for a while as I am separating that from the actual update algorithms. Thanks for the quick responses. Kitan 23:31, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Hunter Pet Moves[]

--Greenteen56 09:47, 30 March 2007 (EDT) How do i get my pet to learn different ranks of abilitys?

I think this is a topic for the Warcraft Pump but you have to tame a beast that knows the skill you want and use them until you learn it. You then may train your other pet with that skill if they have training points. Kitan 09:51, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

You can find more information here. Hunter Pets Kitan T / C / B 12:17, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

Category:Old Heroes[]

I've said it many times : I think this category is useless, and I keep on saying it. See talk page.--K ) (talk) 16:34, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

What are (lore-wise) the differences between shamans and druids?[]

Hello. I was wondering what are the stronger differences between shamans and druids in the Warcraft lore, as they seem very similar. The more information you can give, the best. I, knowing about the theme in the "real world" and having read a lot of articles and Warcraft books, still feel confused about the real breach between both. Also, a matter more of opinion now, why do you think shamans can use shields, maces and axes. It seems more reasonable to me to eliminate those and just leave staves, fist weapons and daggers, and add the possibility for polearms. --SamuraiDD 19:02, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

Druids were initiated by Cenarius or his followers. Their magic comes exclusively from plants and animals, with the exception of moon (thanks to Cenarius' mother Elune). Their main organisation is the Cenarion Circle, so no preference goes to the Alliance nor the Horde.

Shamans were initiated by the spirits themselves, and don't use at all living sources : only elementals. Their main organisation in the Horde is the Earthen Ring, now a powerful warmachine that has turned what had to be a pacific gathering of all shamans into an intelligence organisation that plays and manipulates the Horde. The Alliance has too few shamans to have a shaman organisation, Draenei trainers have to handle it.

Hope I brought you relevant information.--K ) (talk) 19:34, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

This really should be discussed on the Warcraft pump. Shamans can use shields, maces, and axes, because it fits one of their in-game roles. AFAIK, there's no lore reason either for or against it. --Bobson 04:34, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Quest/Item/NPC team[]

This there a team of people working on any of these. I have slowly been adding and updating ashenvale quests but it very slow going seeing as I don't add them very quickly. Is there a team that adds these sort of things that I could work with so that it seems like I am making progress?

Thank You.

--Yelmurc 21:50, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

Cats[]

I approve. 'cept for Siamese. Nerf them. Normal 09:17, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

What is the front page all about? Kitan T / C / B 09:28, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Cats, cats, glorious cats! Kirkburn talk contr 09:34, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

BY CATS BE PURGED! Ragnaros 09:37, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

"Your cats will abandon you..." Chris 16:41, 31 March 2007 (GMT)

We all realize that it isn't April 1st right? :-P Kitan T / C / B 11:51, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

It is in some parts.

12:06, 31 March 2007 (EDT)\

2.08am in Melbourne, Australia on April Fool's Day. --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 12:09, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Still 31st in UK =/ Chris 17:14, 31 March 2007 (GMT)

Sad thing is, despite this, I am unable to load the Main Page atm... it times out =(

Let me in on the joke damn it! --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 12:19, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Finally it loads.... meow --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 12:25, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

(Whew, that's a lot of colons!) If a new person came to WoWWiki with all this cat stuff... you'd have no idea that it is for WoW! A cat wiki? WTH?! Funny stuff --Colinstu 15:01, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Good Examples for Talent pages[]

I've been looking through the mage talents and pages, and I am planning on expanding them all a bit. Looking around for good examples, I checked the Ability Boilerplate, the discussion page that was linked from the ability stub box, and looked at some other classes talent pages. It seems pretty inconsistent all around, with lots of stubs in places. I'll probably go ahead and use the boilerplate, but was wondering if anyone had good examples or thoughts on what a good consistent set of talent articles should look like. --Piumosso-Uldum 11:52, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

I did my first edits on the Shatter article. --Piumosso-Uldum 13:24, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Looks good to me! Sharlin

Horde Ashenvale Quests are done.[]

I just finished all of the Horde quests in ashenvale there may be minor details missing here or there but for the most part they are all there. Please let me know if you think there is anything that needs to be added or changed I want to get some feed back before I move on to the alliance quests. Also I didn't complete all of them some people did some work as well and to all of you I thank you.

Thank You --Yelmurc 17:31, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Meowwiki[]

--Keleytu 18:17, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Uh... who's the vandal who turned this site into a feline hellhole?

Bet it's Meowburn!!! (Prolly the WoWwiki 1april joke ^^ nice one!) ==Patrigan-Talk/Contr-SH (EU) 18:30, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

And a well done one at that. Kudos! Gazmik Fizzwidget T · C · W 00:45, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Mining and the hellhole that it is.[]

Okay, I started today off thinking I'd have a relaxing day, even a good day, then I stumbled upon template:metal. I thought it was fine, but soon I found template:ore and template:bars. Now, these made template:metal invalid and not needed. So I went through the links on template:metal and found that every link there is already a page in bar and they are all, almost 20 pages, superfluous.

So I was wondering if we could get a bot to go through all of said pages and merge them with the ore, and bar pages. So instead of a page for Copper, Copper Ore, and Copper Bar; there would be two as Copper Ore/Bar or even one as Copper(crafting). Because the Copper page has nothing to do with currency in game, it is almost a ver batim link from Copper Ore and Bar. And this is done for almost all of the early craftable ores and bars.

So, yeah, it's bad and quite a lot is there.

--Ithar 19:08, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Lol! Check the last archive or the one before it (should be the last one). I brought this question up before. The easiest way to answer it is to say that ore and bar are two different items. Why we have a page just for copper... :x--Sky (t · c · w) 23:42, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Copper should be done away with and replaced with Copper_Ore. Now Ores and Bars should stay separate as putting them together would make for very large pages. The Ore section would tell you where you can find it and the Bar section would tell you want to use it for - two very separate tasks. So just hunt down the silly pages like "Copper" - they need to be dropped.

I think we should always have the pages as XXXX_Ore and XXXX_Bar Sharlin 06:58, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

How do I know how many edits I've done?[]

'Cause I might at least be in the 500 club. Does that include edits to anything? Like userpages, templates, pump, etc. --Colinstu 10:13, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

Special:Contributions/Colinstu --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 19:55, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

Categorized[]

All pages are now -- whether they are accurate or not is to be seen -- categorized in one fashion or another.

I think we should have a party.

--Ithar 02:04, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

Orly?!
Special:Uncategorizedimages--Sky (t · c · w) 02:16, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

Images don't count, silly --Ithar 11:44, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

Of course they do! /evil--Sky (t · c · w) 17:57, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

Oh... my... god. I never thought I'd live to see the day. *breaks open the champagne* --Mikk (T) 08:34, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Congrats! Of course, they keep coming - 25 uncategorized pages when I just checked (though I stomped a few of them while I was there. Keep up the good work! --Bobson 05:04, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Not to be the bad guy in all of this, but I rather have a page categorized as stub or not categorized at all, that with incorrect or very raw categories - it makes the fixing easier. An item should never be in Category:Items for example. --Ady _s 05:13, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Names of Servers/battlegroups in foreign languages[]

Just added Battlegroup DE Sturmangriff and Battlegroup FR Représailles, but made a little mistake I guess. For now I linked to Server:Festung der Stuerme Europe (1) instead of Server:Festung der Stürme Europe (2), because i only saw Server:Confrerie du Thorium Europe (3) and not Server:Confrérie du Thorium Europe (4)

Whatever - I'll fix it tomorrow if someone approves that (1) should redirect to (2) like (3) redirects to (4) or is Server:Festung der Sturme Europe for non-Germans more "plausible"? (additionally, as (1) is the correct substitute if you have no ü)

-- Flotsam | (talk / contr) 00:07, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

To Do: Jewels != Gems[]

Hi all. There seems to be a slight problem with game terminology.

Everything under Category:Jewels are Gems not Jewels. The term Gem is not only used in game, but in Blizzard Documentation too.

As such, I'll be removing items from the Jewels Category, and if it turns out all those items are misplaced, wave bye bye to the Jewels Category! If anyone else would like to help out, or give your (bloody good) arguement as to why this shouldn't be done, say so here :) <Kiltek> blah / spam 08:52, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Did you read the above Gem discussion?Kitan T / C / B 16:11, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Certainly did. And took action on it, hence why I removed the "Jewel" terms and why I'll be removing "Gems" from the "Jewel" Category since we don't put "Jewels" in "Sockets". <Kiltek> blah / spam 17:07, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

The Aldor vs. The Scryers -- "Scryers" and not "Scryer"[]

There seems to be quite a bit of inconsistency and to be honest I blame Blizzard for their own ambiguity, but the two factions are "The Aldor" (singular) and "The Scryers" (plural). However I am seeing reference all over the place to "Aldor and Scryer" (and less often, "Aldors and Scryers"), such as with the Aldor-Scryers reward comparison page here.

I would like to see consistent use of one, and using redirects so hits for "Scryer" go for "Scryers."

What do you think?

--Teni 15:08, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

sounds absolutely reasonable -- Flotsam | (talk / contr) 17:21, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

For some reason, I always interpreted "The Aldor" to be one of those "same word for singular and plural" words... you know like "sheep" TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 17:35, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Wouldn't that be Aldorian and Aldorians? <Kiltek> blah / spam 20:24, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

I noticed that today as well when I was looking at the Scryer page(not plural). Searching the site gives two results and I wasn't sure which one too pick :D bballpaul 15:46, 14 April 2007

Another Bot Question[]

So I am nearing the time when I can "unleash the hounds" as it were in reference to the first bot update by KitanBot. However I have a question. Would it be useful for me to generate a list of pages it updated for a specific update? I understand we have the contributions from it to look at but was just wondering if I should note that information someplace. Kitan T / C / B 16:22, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Unless it's periodically updating a set of pages (like Mikkbot is doing), no. Contributions list is fine if you're doing sweeping edits with it. --Mikk (T) 07:44, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

Working with classes needs to be fixed.[]

The table that is in the upper corner of the screen for these does not match the standard table used on all other class screens. It just has Classes, Working With, how to Kill, how to Help, and Tactics. I believe that all I would have to do is replace //Classguides// with //Classnav// right? Sharlin 07:07, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

I've added the stuff from {{Classguides}} to {{Classnav}}.The former now redirects to the latter, and so shows {{Classnav}} on all relevant pages. I hope this helps! Kirkburn talk contr 12:15, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Site needs to adjust color scheme for visual clarity[]

Because right now the contrast is horrible for those with vision problems. The backgrounds need to be much darker than the text on the same page. Main page is still a jumble of background colors that would be much better replaced with borders. There are at least NINE different background colors! Sharlin 07:11, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

You would rather the website used black and white exclusively? I really don't see much of a problem on the main page, but can you point to specific other circumstances where the contrast is messed up? Kirkburn talk contr 12:20, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

With proper access to CSS, we could make a high contrast skin... *whine*

Hell we wouldn't even need a skin, there are black text on white ones that would be _FINE_ if the pages used real CSS. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 21:09, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

No, not black and white. The text and background color combinations need to have more of a difference than they currently do. Sharlin 06:09, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

Events incompletely categorized[]

I popped in last night and discovered that many events have gone missing from the Combat category. For example, CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_CREATURE_VS_CREATURE_HITS is no longer listed on the Events/Combat page. Neither are most of the messages related to the combat chat box.

This was all working around March 8th, when I was last fiddling with my add-ons. --Anachronda 10:31, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

It appears that Mikkbot has been removing them and adding them back a couple times in the past couple days. It builds the pages like Events/Combat based of the alphabetical pages like Events/C. The "C" page hasn't been changed so I'm not sure why Mikkbot is removing and adding the events. I put a note on Mikk's talk page about it.- ClydeJr 11:41, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Aye. It appears that Rustak ripped out Apache and replaced it with Lighttpd, which in and of itself is the right thing to do for performance reasons. But it also requires some tweaking to Mikkbot's scripts. I'm on it now. --Mikk (T) 07:13, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

Odd Question for admins[]

This is going to sound like an odd question, but did anything on the wiki's server side in the last 12 hours that we know of? I am having a difficult time logging in this morning and since I am using Mikk's algorithm to do that for his bot I think he might be having the same issue. Kitan T / C / B 11:44, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Patch day fun! Should be back to normal now. Kirkburn talk contr 12:12, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

I am not sure that is it. But I suppose it might be. I was able to log in yesterday though it was slow as freeb. Ok Kirk I guess I give up trying to debug at all. :) Thanks for the response. Kitan T / C / B 12:17, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

And in case any other of the botters see this, specifically I am getting a HTTP 417 error. Kitan T / C / B 13:43, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Apparently I misread what you said Kirk. During patch day I had no problems. As of this morning, 5 hours ago, I am getting an HTTP response of 417 when my bot logs in. No code was changed and that is why I am curious why all of a sudden my bot cannot log into the site. Kitan T / C / B 13:45, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

I am not sure what changed. It may have to do with my proxy. It is my end as I thought it probably was but wanted to be sure of any wiki software updates. I apologize for the spam. :) Kitan T / C / B 14:10, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Last night the server was configured to use lighttpd instead of Apache. GRYPHON^tc 14:12, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

That might have been it then. I had to turn off one of the headers being sent in order for the bot to log in. Kitan T / C / B 14:35, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Don't know if this matters but when you were changing Meowiki back to WoWwiki your whole site was taking FOREVER to load pages... sped back to normal once everything was back to normal --Colinstu 16:14, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Okay, well, a fuller explanation:

Patch days (going right from US tuesday mornings to EU wednesday evenings) increase the load on the server - great for business, bad for speed :(
Naughty pages - the coding of some pages can 'clog up' the wiki every so often. The best way to not have this occur is to make pages as simple as possible, and don't use templates for the sake of it!
Wiki upgrades - as Gryphon mentioned, the wiki switched config resulting in some downtime (which I totally missed).

Now, in other news, we should hopefully be getting other upgrades/changes soon. The problem is time. The server admin is a busy man, and please don't complain about that - it's life, and we have to cope with what we have (which tbh, is pretty a awesome website).

Since I'm going off on one here - one thing I would really love to see is a focus on improving the current articles instead of more and more of them, with a good structure to keep it all together. The wiki does lore and guides really well, and we should be focusing on improving and tidying those - bots can (and are) doing most mundane item stuff. Unreadable pages are as bad as no pages at all. Kirkburn talk contr 16:53, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

And then the network died. Irony! Kirkburn talk contr 17:32, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Seems like Rustak took the server down to replace Apache with Lighttpd. Without telling us that it'd happen. --Mikk (T) 07:47, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

Bloody IT! <Kiltek> blah / spam 08:06, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

Category:Homages[]

Before I start doing too much of this, I thought a Category for Homages would be appropriate and wondered what everyone else thinks. I've set up the initial idea with some of the Opera Event Oz characters. If people think it's a good idea, I'll expand it. If not, I'll get rid of it.

Yithnal - John

--Yithnal 12:11, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Hmm... not quite sure homage would be the name I'd prefer. It seems a little lackluster in the "wtf is this category" department. Maybe "Real world allusion" might be a better cat name.--Sky (t · c · w) 16:33, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Well, I just found the List of pop culture references in Warcraft page and it's pretty much everything I had envisioned would belong to an Homages Category. Which, of couse, begs the question whether such a category is really useful or not. --Yithnal 16:39, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Hehe. :) I was hoping you'd see that at some point.--Sky (t · c · w) 17:00, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Maybe some pages which point to that page would suffice. Because it's a real pain to try and find that page. It's a whole page of homages which doesn't even make the top ten in the Google search rank. --Yithnal 20:08, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Elink bumping... punishable?[]

Okey, an unnamed external site just "bumped" a number of their links up above other sites in the list. They also reverted edits I had made to make the elinks sections use a more consistant style. So I guess we need some official policies here, because I don't know what I'm allowed to do in this situation.

Elink templates (like the one I made for Ampwow) can solve half the problem (consistancy), in fact I could make a single template everyone can use for their site... but the issue of sort order still remains... What do we do? All I can think of is Alpha-sort, but that is even prone to abuse... TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 21:30, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

You could write a pseudo-randomizer of sorts using the equations here: Just mod the current second http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/ParserFunctions

Something like: {{#switch:{{#expr: {{#time: s }} mod 3 }} |0=Thott |1=Allakhazam |2=whateva |none}} --Yithnal 22:31, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

While useful for the elinks templates (once we get parserfunctions), the occurrence Tekkub is talking about is certain manually added links in the articles. GRYPHON^tc 00:13, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

Aye, and I don't expect to get parse funcs... well ever frankly. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 02:37, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

Can the template be protected from edits? <Kiltek> blah / spam 04:08, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

The template probably could but that doesn't stop someone from putting their own link above the template links using standard Wiki notation. Kitan T / C / B 10:12, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

The issue is not the template, but the other sites added in. Without a defined policy to point to, I don't feel justified in punishing someone for pushing their own links to the top of the list... TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 11:36, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

"Editting wowwiki for the purpose of bumping or altering external links will result in a warning followed by banning for a second offense." Put it in the policies. Do it. --Yithnal 15:36, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

We're working on WW:EL TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 18:04, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

KitanBot's Maiden Voyage[]

KitanBot ran the deprecate old templates for {{Wwclub}} request today. It decided which pages to update based on Special:Whatlinkshere. There were a few issues but all in all it was successful. I didn't wait for user comment previous to running it because it was only 40 pages to update and I was able to just manually check them to be sure all was well.
I was unable to modify Gryphon because his page is protected but all other inclusion references to the templates are gone.
You may read my observations about the bot's first updates on its page.
Note that the {{Wwclub}} template had a slight bug for 2500 but I fixed that as well. Kitan T / C / B 16:01, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

KitanBot - Elinks-quest[]

Last night KitanBot completed the deprecate {{elinksquest}} for {{Elinks-quest}} bot request. You can see the details here.
Help:Editing_quickref was also modified. Kitan T / C / B 10:37, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

My Sig[]

I'm trying to make my sig but am unaware of the numerical value of all the color shades... is there a list? I am not a complete idiot or a vandal! --Sandwichman2448 16:38, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Try using an image editing program such as photoshop or the gimp to select your colour, then read off what its hex code is.

In general the first two digits are red, then green, then blue. The scale goes from 0 -> f (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a b c d e f). so #ffffff is white, and #000000 is black. --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 21:55, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

You might want to look at the Web Colors page at wikipedia. It has a large list of colors and their hex equivalents for you to use. - Clyde_Jr - tal_k - contri_b 16:40, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

Thanks all, I'm done... Check it out---> User:Sandwichman2448/Sig

Sorry but.... ew.... :P --◄ρςұκε®7► talk• contr 20:23, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

It's supposed to be a sandwich/burger with bun, pickle, onion, tomato, lettice, mustard, catsup, patty, cheese, patty, bun, fries, fries, burnt fries, and more fries. But as a whole is is kinda "ew".--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig

My eyes.... they burn!!!! - Clyde_Jr - tal_k - contri_b 11:34, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

whut. -- SeiferTim ( talk · contribs ) 11:52, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Whut the colors stand for... Should I really chainge it? No one gets it... :(--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig

I got it.. I understood it right away-I can't read what the rest of yours say so I don't think you should complain. The color of the peice of food is the same as the letter, so "S" is tan like a bun, etc. I keep my stuff simple good ol' dash dash tilde tilde tilde tilde works just fine for me. Oh and, it's Ketchup, not Catsup :P. --Colinstu 03:14, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

Piece, not peice :P (Catsup is acceptable) GRYPHON^tc 15:25, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

Damn you Merriam Webster! --Colinstu 16:54, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Template:Questtb[]

The above template needs updating to include all major database links, not just Thott - I can do it easily, but I'd like the name changed as it currently means "Quest Thottbot", is there any way to redirect templates without screwing up their use elsewhere on the wiki? <Kiltek> blah / spam 10:26, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Don't, just don't. Make a new template with those links and ask someone with a bot to do the change "Questtb" => "LQuest" Howeve,r what bothers me: isn't there already a template like this? we have one for items... ==Patrigan-Talk/Contr-SH (EU) 14:41, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

{{Questlong}} :) Tbh, Questtb should just be deleted. If it makes a lot of broken links, oh well. It shouldn't be used. And the template you're referring to Pat is {{elinks-quest}}. Alternatively, questtb could just be manually edited; there are less than 100 articles which use it currently.--Sky (t · c · w) 14:44, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Thanks Sky, didn't spring to mind, I often just think of those as Litem, Lquest, L... ^^ (I really need to change my sig, but oo lazy -_-) ==Patrigan-Talk/Contr-SH (EU) 18:55, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Ah fair enough, I'll add it to my list of things to do tomorrow! Only reason it caught my attention was because Kitan was using his bot to change all the questtb, and then reverted them... meh <Kiltek> blah / spam 16:30, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

The template could be edited to just call {{questlong}} until a bot gets them edited... /em goes to fix TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 19:40, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Nix that, northing's using questtb anymore... BALETED! TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 20:00, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

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